The music is good. I know it is. I'm not hanging around just because Taylor can be adorable in interviews or because he takes a nice picture. The guy knows music. He can write it, play it, sing it, arrange it, conduct it when it's live and mix it when it's recorded. He creates a quality product.
But in order to sell this particular product you've got to have radio play. Here in Texas, I've occasionally heard "Do I Make You Proud," but I've never heard any other Taylor Hicks song on the radio.
Out of curiousity, I contacted all of the DJs in my area who work at stations with the right format for Taylor's music and asked them why I've never heard this AI winner on their airwaves.
Now, I'm not an idiot (not completely, anyway). I believe payola is alive and well and living in a gaudy mansion in L.A., but I sent out my naive-sounding e-mails anyway just to see what the DJs would say. Most ignored me or wrote a quick note to say that they played DIMYP, but here is one response I received:
I do remember hearing about Taylor having problems with the record company. He wanted to do things his way and didn't want any record company input.
If a record company doesn't believe in an album they are not going to throw their money behind it. So it would not surprise me if there was a bigger record company push with Daughtry.
The artist and the record company both have to be on the same page for any chance of success. Without record company money the artist can't succeed... and without artist appeal the record company cannot succeed.
And then I read that Daughtry was very cooperative with the record company:
From http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20047251,00.html:
Ironically, the best model for how to play nice with Clive might be the guy who's made the most of his rebel persona. Daughtry's success as a public badass and private compromiser may provide a template for future Idols: Save the glowering for the stage, not the conference room.
I don't begrudge Daughtry his success. He's good at producing music that appeals to the masses and I'm fine with that. Really. But just because another guy (Taylor) wants something more meaningful than that doesn't mean he's a failure.
Here's hoping the next CD gets radio play. But if it doesn't, I'll remind myself that there's a very ugly side to this music biz and that it doesn't always reward the best and the brightest. Maybe knowing that Taylor reaches some of us out there in the darkness will have to be enough.
PAYOLA BLUES
by Neil Young
This one's for you Al Freed,
Wherever you go, whatever you do
'Cause the things they're doing today
Will make a saint out of you
Payola blues.
I've got the payola blues
Even though I already paid my dues.
Listen to me Mr. D.J.,
hear what I've got to say
If a man is making music,
they ought to let his record play.
Payola blues
No matter where I go
I never hear my record on the radio.
Well, here's three thousand,
that ought to get it on.
Well, thanks a lot man!
I love your new song.
Payola blues
No matter where I go
I never hear my record on the radio.
And it goes like this.
I got a brand new record company,
new manager too.
Got a great new record,
I can't get through to you.
Payola blues
No matter where I go
I never hear my record on the radio.
How about this new Mercedes Benz,
that ought to get it on.
Well, thanks a lot man!
I'll play it all day long.
Payola blues
No matter where I go
I never hear my record on the radio.
I've got the payola blues, payola blues
I'm paying those payola blues
No matter where I go
I never hear my record on the radio.
FYI: Just to be clear, I have no idea if payola was involved where Taylor is concerned.
151 comments:
Here, here Caryl! Bravo! You said it all very eloquently!
Caryl, Very nicely said. Taylor didn't play the Clive game so he didn't get air play its that simple.
JI
Now this may come across as a controversial opinion. I'm not going down the puppies and rainbow path.
Granted, it sounds very romantic, taking a stand for your artistry and all that noble sounding rhetoric. Problem is, work can suffer for want of a compromise. An artist of any genre needs to come to terms with placing their art above their ego. Not an easy task.
I'm not castigating Taylor Hicks with his having put his ego over his music, I really have no idea what went down behind those closed doors. This just speculation on my part.
Obviously something went wrong, and there are two sides to every coin. Blaming old man Clive for the ills that befell Hicks with his CD failing to muster up to the potential - for the lack of airplay - is an easy and satisfying thing to do. I don't think it's that simple to just point the finger at Clive.
Thing is perhaps that post-Idol CD was an experiment that just did not take off. There is a big difference between Hicks' pre-Idol material and what landed on the CD.
Regarding payola and airplay, well, that falls within the theory of compromise and working with the vehicle that will take you where you want to go. Hicks said he wanted his music heard, right? I'm just saying he perhaps should have used another approach to make that very thing happen.
(edited a misspelling)
I guess that's one reason why I want to stay a fan of Hicks. He's still the underdog and I want him to succeed.
Great article Caryl!
How about a more simple explanation...those songs were not radio friendly. Nobody could figure out what genre it was and for the record company (or Taylor) to create the "Modern Whomp" genre was very ridiculous. I remember when I first heard about "Modern Whomp", I laughed and I knew it would be a failure. Let's hope his next attempt will at least stick to one genre of music and not be a jumbled mess.
I'd rather look forward than backward, since I don't know the truth and the lack of radio play frustrated the hell out of me. I can sort of buy the "genre" argument...not country, not rock, not top 40 poptastic crap. Taylor has created his own label now and I hope all his dreams are realized. Lightening struck me when I discovered the raw emotion and talent of Taylor in 2006 and I cannot wait for the new CD in early 2009. He describes it as his best work and I am thrilled for him. I hope he catches a big break with promotion and radio because he deserves it. He is a class act and he WILL be a career musician, just wait and see.
I totally disagree with your assessment of the "Modern Whomp", anonymous. I was really impressed that Taylor was so creative. I loved that he did that and I will say here and now that I don't listen to the radio so I really don't care if they don't play Tay's music. They don't play McCartney's music, either, and he's my other fave singer. I still buy the albums and go see the shows anyway. So screw the radio.
Sunny, I agree with alot you say what part Taylor played in all of it we will never know. Whether the forces that be didn't like him it shouldn't have mattered, he won the show and should have been promoted like every other winner prior to him. His music could have been marketable had they tried. Thats just my opinion.
JI
The only reason I see fit with the reason why they consider Daughtry better than Taylor is because of the fact that our ('scuse me - MY) generation doesn't know what real, good, honest music is. They'd rather listen to some song about a salt shaker, than actually have a song that reminded them of an old friend back in elementary school, and made them laugh.
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS HEART. At least that's what I'm starting to believe.
Caryl, you said it very well. And I pray that Taylor gets some respect for this album, because it's time we hear some decent music on the radio that has some meaning... am I right?
Payola is no longer a concern. Record companies have paid out millions in settlements and it does not happen as much as some would like to say.
There's thousands of college radio stations and non-profit stations - they were not playing Taylor's music either. Why?
Taylor Hicks' album did not appeal to the masses. The internet is also a powerful place to hear and listen to music. His music was also not popular online.
If Taylor sold records, Clive made money. Clive paid for the production, as a business man he would obviously want to make money. Daughtry and Taylor had two completely different types of listeners. They were not in competition. Chris delivered what was expected from him,. Taylor's album was nothing like the music he sang on Idol. I was not surprised at all it did not do well.
Sunny, was I puppies and rainbows? Hmm...maybe I need a rewrite. I think Taylor shoulders some of the blame. Why would TPTB screw themselves out of money? Of course they wanted Taylor to succeed.
But, the point I was trying to get across is that Taylor has talent. Just because he hasn't had the commercial success enjoyed by other AI contestants doesn't mean he's a hack.
I disagree, anonymous (9:59 am): I think many of the songs on the TH CD were radio-friendly. JTFTW coulda gone top 40. Yeah, that's right, I said it! Why not? It's a pretty little ballad.
Dream Myself Awake (one of my favorites), Wherever I Lay My Hat (lovely), Heaven Knows, The Right Place...any one of them would have fit right in on adult contemporary.
anonymous (4:14pm): Good points. Food for thought.
Is this the point where Gray would have posted that drawing of the guy beating a dead horse? :)
One more question and then I may be done with this: Have any of you ever heard any song from the TH CD on the radio? Perhaps a poll? Those things are never really accurate, but I think I'll post one anyway. Go and weigh in on the main page.
I don't remember what I said before, and I'm too lazy to look. So I don't know if Im repeating myself or contradicting myself... but either way:
I think that Taylor's cd isn't exactly what he wanted it to be. I think that Taylor and Clive or whoever was producing with him, didn't get a long. I think that Taylor didn't get the chance to create "that" sound he was looking for. If you notice, his self-titled album sounds NOTHING like his first albums pre-AI.
I like a few songs on the album, and I occasionaly listen to them all. However, I think that the album is too... uh... cliche? It's too much of the pop sound, and it seems like either Taylor or the producer was trying to hard to make it a likeable album by the younger generation. A lot of the lyrics are really cheesey, and the sound doesn't give off a strong enough tone/beat to really catch someone's attention.
Taylor has the ability to blow people away, just look up any live show of his (not AI) on YouTube and you'll agree with me. Now if he does on his new album what he does during his live shows... Taylor will get radio play, mark my words. And he will surprise quite a few people. He shouldn't be shy to use his voice when he records, like it seems. If you've ever noticed, he's soft on the albums, but hard and crisp live. Ok... I'm done whining. :)
Unless a balland has an R&B or pop-rock edge to it, it does not fit in Top 40 radio formats. JTFTW did not fit in - it's as simple as that. JTFTW is an adult contemporary song that did NOT catch on with the masses.
The first time I heard JTFTW, I did not like the song, although I like Taylor Hicks. So, if I didn't like it, there had to be thousands of people who also DID. NOT. LIKE. IT. I don't know whose idea it was to let the Soul Patrol pick the song, but it was an AWFUL DECISION. The whole project was a disaster from start to finish.
Hmm...OK anon, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Most of the people who listened to the CD (because I asked them to) said JTFTW was their favorite song.
The Maze or Dream Myself Awake was better suited for Top 40 and perhaps had a better chance of airplay. JTFTW definitely was not. The song is over-produced and it could have been a great song, but it needed more work.
Get past this. Season 5 ended over 2 years ago. The artists have moved past Idol; you need to move on also for your own peace of mind and because this sour grapes attitude was old and annoying 1 1/2years ago.
Sour grapes? That's not what this is about. I've never gotten involved in that old Chris vs Taylor thing. Personally, I think Chris should have won season 5. He's what that show is looking for.
I'm thinking that I didn't express myself well in this blog post. My point is that Taylor is talented despite what people enjoy writing about him. AND I believe those people who are so quick to bash him probably never heard his music.
Ok... if you don't like Taylor Hicks... why are you wasting your time reading this entire blog and reading all the comments and taking the time to answer it yourself?
So don't sit here and tell us to get over it. We will get over it when we're damn well ready too.
Whether you like him or not, that's your decision. It's a blog for FRIENDS AND DISCUSSION. To state our opinions, not to TELL people what to do. So why don't you get over it?
I'm sorry for being a b**** but I'm tired of people snapping at us because we believe in something.
At least I look up to someone, and have the audacity to care and support them. So I'm gonna leave it at that. (Hopefully)
Caryl, I enjoyed reading your thoughts and peoples comments. The past is history. Just believe Taylor has learned from the past and will try to Tay it forward. Rosie
"Sunny, was I puppies and rainbows? Hmm...maybe I need a rewrite."
Caryl, I was referring to myself wandering off the rainbow path, not that you were on one. lol
JTFTW was one of my least favorite songs. I am in agreement with anonymous on the radio play topic and song selection. Every time he'd select a song to use as a promotion, Runaround, then JTFTW I cringed.
The Maze was one I thought would take off on radio as well. It was cleverly put together. The Right Place was one other that would have worked to represent Hicks. It baffled me the thought process behind the tunes elected to represent.
I've never heard him on radio in Dallas, only at Walgreens and Kohls on their store muzak selections.
I found this interesting comment from Ray LaMontagne yesterday about the tension that exists between the record companies and recording artists.
"“The music industry becomes interested in you because you do your own thing. As soon as they get involved, you have to fight to do your own thing. It’s just full of people tugging at you in every other direction, everybody’s got their hands in things. It becomes a battle to express yourself in the way you do normally, the way it comes naturally to you. You know what it comes down to, records have to be sold somehow and that’s what labels do. But they don’t make music, thats up to the artists to do.”
I still respect Taylor for taking the steps to get creative control this next time around, even if it affects radio play. I'm hoping that the more exciting "viral" ways of marketing that other young artists are taking advantage of will be put to good use by Taylor's team. But, that's just me.
Kenzie: you go, girl! There's nothing wrong with continuing a discussion if we have lingering questions. I hate when people tell me to just get over it.
You're right about The Right Place, Sunny. That song slipped my mind! Ack. And I like it, too.
Linda T: great comment. I love the quote from Ray LaMontagne.
I still don't really understand how a song gets airplay if payola isn't involved. Yeah, yeah, the label sends the song out to stations. The station plays what they believe the public wants to hear. They would be eager to play a popular, established artist. Got that. But what about a newcomer? What gets a new artist backed by a major label on the air as opposed to someone who is not? (does that sentence make sense? I have a headache) What does the major label DO that gets the new artist on the air?
I wonder if Taylor would have done things differently knowing what he knows now. The way I see it, a single should be released before the album to build anticipation. That's what is going on now with the Davids A. & C. Both their albums should have good first week sales (not that I'll be buying either one).
Taylor will ALWAYS be my ONLY idol. I can respect what the others have done (I guess), but they don't move me, and I don't "get them", like I do Taylor. The man is original and fun from the word go. I LOVE to follow his progress on the blogs and love reading all the love from his fans who are the greatest EVER!
As far as airplay from TH CD, I think JTFTW was a great choice for a single. I was actually heard it at a Burger King one day while I was eating there with a friend. Needless to say, it put a HUGE smile on my face. Unfortunately, I was with one of those friends just that rolled his eyes. His loss I told him.
Anyway, I thought it was a good choice, but making a video for the song may have increased its exposure. I still love the song today. Taylor did a GREAT vocal on that song and I wish it could have been a bigger hit.
Like others, have said before, "The Maze" would have been a great choice for a single. At the time, it would have been a better fit with the songs on the radio. It has a little Maroon5 feel to it (even though I can's stand that band.) I LOVE LOVE LOVE how Taylor did it live. It KILLS! The version on WATW is a-maze-ing! I hope Taylor keeps that song on the set list for his next tour.
"The Runaround" was also a great choice for a single. He promoted the hell out of it when the album was first released but it never was a single.
That never made sense to me. The song is even better in concert! Again, the WATW version - OMG!
Sorry to go on so long, but the TH CD had great potential! It could have had "legs". Other songs like "Heaven Knows", and of course, "The Right Place", could have also been BIG HITS had they been marketed properly (i.e, with videos.) I do love the youtube videos that are out there, as a consolation.
Taylor Hicks (the man) is GREAT (I love the CD, too),
and I hope with full control on his next CD in February, that the man WILL get airplay and build on an already amazing fan base. Godspeed, Taylor!!!
A TRUE FAN FOR LIFE!!! Love yooooo, Taylor!
The Runaround is one of the worst songs, ever! The lyrics absolutely ridiculous! Yes, I think radio, most likely, HATED that song!
NEW MUSIC ALWAYS GOES FORWARD - IT NEVER GOES BACK IN TIME! Blue-eyed soul and disco ARE NOT MAKING COMEBACKS! That is the reason for NO RADIO AIRPLAY! The Taylor Hicks CD was an experiment that failed!
anonymous (10:39 AM): Have you ever listened to Amy Winehouse? She couldn't be anymore retro IMO.
Read what wikipedia says about her:
"Amy Jade Winehouse is an English singer-songwriter, known for her eclectic mix of various musical genres including soul, jazz, rock & roll and R&B."
Sound like someone we know?
Listen to "Love Is a Losing Game." It sounds like an old recording, hyet she won an award for this song in 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9oFJf_uE5Q
Any Winehouse did NOTHING on the charts. She only had ONE song that made it on the charts. And the only reason was because that song was edgy! She got critical aclaim because the record she made was well-made.
Songs like "going to rehab" and "I kissed a girl" get attention! The more attention, the more they move up the charts! Plus, they get the record label's push and radio stations like it. That's how hit songs are made!
I have to admit anonymous has a point. "Rehab" is the only song of hers I've heard on the radio.
I'm tired, somebody else talk now. :)
I've never heard of the songs "going rehab" or "I kissed a girl" so they don't mean squat to me
lubiana, I've known you since the early days on the AI boards. You make it very clear, you don't care for the music part. You are a 'fangirl'. That's fine, but Taylor cannot survive with fans like you. He needs to make his mark in the music world because if he doesn't, he will disappear and nobody will ever hear from him ever again. His fans need to face reality, Taylor is a heartbeat away from oblivion. I'm sorry, but the masses do not care about a national tour of Grease. The signs are already there. No news about him means trouble.
I think if Taylor's new single gets airplay things will be much different this time around. Taylor has been very much in the news since his involvement with Grease, he is busy getting ready for the Grease tour and working on the CD. Once the tour starts I'm sure Taylor will be back in the media in a positve way as he was this past summer.
Sorry, I'm not going to worry about Taylor. I think he has his plans in place and will handle this new album in the way that he wants, this time. I, for one, cannot wait for it to drop! And I'll be back to see him in concert as soon as he comes back to Florida!
Well anonymous, you can think and say what you like, but the fact is if I didn't like Taylor's music, I wouldn't like him, period. Pretty faces are nice but after a while that gets old. Without him being a great singer, song writer and performer I would have stopped caring about him a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. And dat's da truth.
I really hate when people make personal attacks, so don't go there again, please, anonymous. We're having a pretty interesting discussion I think, without reducing it to that level.
One of the DJs wrote to say that an artist needs to be requested to be on the air (which I'm not sure I buy, but whatever.) If that's true, we should have heard a Taylor song about every five minutes, the way the SP requested his single. And that whole thing about writing letters to radio stations was bizarre, too.
Maybe some of the Soul Patrol are fangirls but if they are only around for the superficial,they probably won't stay much longer. Some of my favorite artists are my favorites because their voice and playing and songwriting skills blow me away, give me goosebumps and make my heart happy....and guess what? They are not very handsome at all!
For selfish reasons I hope Taylor gets the play and respect he deserves the next time around...I want/need him to keep touring beyond the southeast where he got his start. I disagree that nobody cares about Grease...the producers were ecstatic with the ticket sales, the reviews were all good, and many folks love musical theater even more with a big name up on that stage, one who can truly perform like Taylor. Give the guy a break already!
A change is gonna come.
For whatever reason, the team that produced and marketed the TH cd did not mesh. I think there is clear evidence that the team recruited to produce the new cd has gelled, and stands a much better chance of success.
Taylor sounds genuinely pleased with the results of preproduction on the album, a marketing plan seems to be in place, and a first single will see daylight before the official album release.
I'm really looking forward to hearing the results of this new team's efforts.
I think the freshman CD failed to take off because the majority of the songs were not Taylor's style of music. It failed to meet the expectations of many diehard fans. Taylor may well have been rather steadfast in his dealings and turned off the PTB, but one can only do so much with craptastic songs. I too cringed everytime I heard Runaround and JTFTW. However, I think had The Right Place been the single and pushed by the record co., it would have driven up sales and interest in the artist. I base this on the fact that my two teenagers, both who think they're "too hip" for TH, connected with The Right Place. The song is a classic which appeals to all ages.
Anyway, good luck to Taylor this time around.
Regarding the radio play ...payola...etc. I live in Canada and when the TH cd came out I called a request line on a local Toronto station that fit Taylor's music very well..I spoke with the DJ and requested JTFTW and was told that she wasn't sure it fit the stations selections, I told her it was a good fit and asked if she might play the Runaround or The Right Place then.again another reason she couldn't play them. I very politely asked if she would pick a selection she thought might or even DIMYP and was told VERY firmly..."we will NOT play him". I thanked her for her time.(didn't want to give the SP a bad name) and hung up. If that is not to do with payola I'd like to know what the hell it was. I still pi**es me off.
I found it very interesting the other day on The View that the Queen of Soul herself, Aretha Franklin was on promoting her new Christmas cd..when the ladies said they were surprised she hadn't done a Christmas cd before she said that Clive didn't think it would do well so he wouldn't allow it. Now that she has parted company with Clive after all these years because of "creative differences"she has been able to do it her way. Maybe TPTB will soon realize that with more of the superstars and the newcomers alike opting for indie labels or stating their own labels they are losing their power and their need for complete control. I'm very proud of Taylor for taking these steps so early in his career. This could be a very exciting time in the music biz. It's time it went back to the artist and not the suits.It also my get people listening to radio again because it is not all spoonfed clone music. There may be choices.
anonymous (7:04pm): wow! That is very telling.
anonymous (7:22): Clive wouldn't allow the Queen of Soul to make a Christmas album?! Lord, what other gems did we miss out on in the past because Clive didn't think t was a good idea? And, btw, can you imagine the balls it must take to stand up to Clive?
I thought it was interesting when Taylor said something about how his new deal made sense in this digital age. I wonder what he meant by that?
There have been many artists that haven't hit it big on their first release. Take for example the 2nd releases of both Pat Benatar's "Crimes of Passion" and Bon Jovi's "Slippery When Wet". Both albums set the stage for their careers.
I think Taylor could see the same result come next Feb. 10th. I do think TH did hit pretty big, though. (#2 debut, 298,000 copies). The TH has sold a very respectable 800,000+ with virtually no airplay or promotion. (Some artists would love to have HIS numbers!) The truth is though, Taylor isn't into the whole numbers thing. Being a performer is #1. And he IS that!!!
I personally think TH is a very solid effort and I enjoyed his performances on his '07 tour. I LOVE the whole CD. I can't say that about many, or any current releases these days.
Due to the buzz from Taylor's live shows, and "Grease", (Yes, that was a smart career move), there is a great curiosity and anticipation for his 2nd release. I read about it daily on various blogs.
Regarding his live shows, Taylor received very positive reviews from his '07 show, not to mention a slew of loyal fans who followed him on the tour. I met many of them who saw him numerous times and loved how he made each show different AND special. His energy is beyond reproach. I've been to many concerts in my life and have never been as impressed by anyone as much as Taylor. I saw him twice and wish I could have seen him more! Touring is where Taylor will make the real money, and as much as he enjoys performing on stage, I don't think Taylor has to worry about anything.
I WILL be there to see him "Grease", and I WILL be there to see him on his '09 tour! Go see the MAN LIVE and you will see what we already know. SO worth the price of admission. I REALLY look forward to the DVD release of "Whomp At The Warfield" - GREAT songs, GREAT energy, GREAT band, GREAT performer!!!
Give Taylor a chance anonymous. Have you seen him live?
To see Taylor LIVE is a GREAT experience, but you can also check out his many videos on youtube, especially "Sweet Home Chicago", "Dancing Queen", and "Happier With Him". Hey, even watch his Idol performances. TAYLOR HICKS IS THE MAN!!!
If that's not enough for you anonymous, maybe you should make yourself anonymous somewhere else. Just saying...
How is he going to tour if he doesn't sell records? Do you realize how much money it takes? Please do not say it comes from ticket sales. The SP is too small a group to support him.
Had Taylor released either The Right Place, or The Maze as a single prior to releasing the Cd. They would have gone to #1, or #2 on the charts, as did DIMYP,(#1), or the CD (#2). Then the stations would have played them. The stations only play well selling songs. He also should have had a video released of one of those songs, prior to the CDs release. By the time JTFTW as released as a single, it was two and a half months after the CD release. Every other Idol winner and finalist releases a single first. Someone screwed up and it may have been Taylor. He does need a rather successful 2nd. CD to be able to pay for a tour and draw in the crowds. Rosie
Caryl, One of my sons friends interned at a radio station summers 07 & 08. during 07 I asked him why they didn't play any Taylor music. He checked and said they never got a CD from his record company thats why they didn't play him. I handed him one of my extra copies and said here play it. He said it doesn't work that way it has to come from the record company its a package deal. Could never get out of him what the package deal was. Being a summer intern he may not have even known what the deal was.
Taylorfan06, Totally agree Taylor never worried about the radio play, his fans did. He is more a live performer he likes to connect with the audience.
A tour does cost alot of money I think Taylor has been preparing for this with everything he is doing.
Oh we know his money doesnt come from ticket sales, lol. That money is to pay for the show that he just put on.
Anon- "A change is gonna come" (the one that said that...) AMEN!! I agree completely, this album HAS to be better. I hope so... if not, I'll be ashamed. Not because he's a bad music artist, but because we know that he's not.
Is it February yet???
What fans don't understand is everything has a trickle affect. You say Taylor is more of a live stage performer..well, that's great, but how will he get people to attend his shows if people are not hearing his music? You need to hear someone's music first before you attend someone's show, don't you? You need radio airplay, so the masses can hear you, buy your music and attend your shows. The royalities you get from record sales helps to fund tour expenses. That's how it works! Plus, Taylor has NO record label support, another BIG minus. He has to pay for all record promotion and advertising. I honestly wish Taylor all the luck in the world, but if any of you think this is a walk in the park, you could not be more wrong. It's a tough business. That's why most recording artists, who are one-hit wonders, leave the business. It's just too hard, unless you have an endless supply of money.
time will tell...
Just enjoy the music. TRY it. You'll LIKE it.
Make it do what it do Taylor!
I love all of your optimism, but I'm skeptical about the coming year. There hasn't been any buzz at all about Taylor here in Texas. We haven't heard anything about Grease.
I agree that radio play is everything. Most of the CDs sitting right here by my computer were bought because I liked a song from the CD that I heard on the radio.
BUT, the times they are a-changing. My kids say they get their music from word of mouth and the internet.
I think the promotion of the Taylor Hicks CD was botched on purpose. The record company only did what they were forced to according to the recording contract that he WON. They produced Chris's CD before Taylor's (that has never happend before) because they wanted to show that they thought Chris should have won, and they wanted to PROVE IT with CD sales. They pushed Chris's CD on almost every type of radio station, and did not even release the single (The Runaround) that Taylor promoted with TV apprearances. I think they did not like AI being identified with an "older fan base" and thought that no Idol's popularity should be bigger than the real star, which was the AI show itself. Taylor's CD sold even without radio play because Taylor has great fans, but the record company did not want to promote him. And AI has focused on the younger "Miley Cyrus fanbase" in their Idols ever since.
The truth is, no matter what Hollywood says, or TMZ says about Taylor Hicks, middle America loves him, and he will be back. I think he will have a "sleeper hit" off this next album. A song that sorta comes from nowhere, and you just like it, and then people find out it is Taylor Hicks. I heard him say that he has had to totally makeover his image. Being a success on Broadway was the first step to doing that, and now he is headlining a National Tour, and featuring a new song in the show. That will promote news articles. The more he shows that he is still an amazing Entertainer, the more his PR image will turn around. People loved him because he was the unusual guy that won the big prize, and they will love it when he has a comeback and they see him again. Remember when Simon told Taylor, "At first I thought it was lame cabaret....and then... MAGIC!!!!!
BabyDoll
I guess you conveniently forgot that Taylor refused to work on his CD during the Idol tour and that's the reason Daughtry got a head start. Daughtry was focused and knew he had something to prove. Something Taylor should have been doing. I honestly believe Taylor got cocky during this period and thought his fame would carry him thru. Taylor was focused on after-shows with the bar band, LMBO, which was a huge and costly mistake. He should have gotten busy with his own career instead of helping a band that was your typical bar band found in any city in America. There was nothing special about them.
anonymous..(or not so anonymous)It is much easier to get a cd out on time when you all sound the same and "borrow' a few lyrics here and a few lyrics there .I'm not trying to be arguementive here just real tired of
daughtry supporters showing up on Taylor fan sites for no purpose other then to stir sh*t ,when their own idol is not without artistic flaws as seen in court documents.
Ha ha! I love this blog. It's never boring, that's for sure! :)
Excuse me, but I was not the one who brought up Daughtry. Anonymous at 11:23 PM brought up Daughtry and that is not me.
I'm just telling you the facts that Taylor chose NOT to work on his CD during the Idols tour and Daughtry did and that's the reason for Daughtry's head start.
Regarding caryl's comment about "word of mouth and internet" spreading new music.....I totally agree! One of the BEST artists I have ever experienced and am now a huge consumer of and fan of is someone I NEVER heard on radio. It was purely word of mouth and internet sampling and I am HOOKED.
I hope Taylor gets TV appearances(as in the past...Leno, Regis, The View etc.) to promote the new music and it would be awesome if one of his songs ended up on a movie or TV soundtrack to gain new fans.
He is smart and talented, he just needs s little more good fortune.
Many of you seem to be missing the forest for the trees here.
I see it as a simple business matter. The label has "x" number of people whose job it is to promote and push songs to radio. They have "y" artists to promote.
The label assigns, let's say, 1/2 of their available "x". Let's pretend it's 2 people to push Artist A and 2 people to push Artist B. Now, they also need to be mindful of the amount of money they invested in recording, promotion, advertising etc.
Both teams of promoters go at it. The team for Artist A calls up some radio stations and says "Hey, can you play this song by American Idol winner Taylor Hicks?" or something to that effect. Radio DJ says one of three things now.
1) I love that guy, sure.
2) I hate that guy, no.
3) Only if you pay me some money. (This is for you payola people our there).
The other team does the same thing for Artist B
After the first few days the radio people all get back together and say, "how is it going".
Team A says - we called 200 stations and got 10 "Yes", 180 "No" and 10 "only if you pay me".
Team B says - we called 200 stations and got 100 "yes" and 100 "no".
The management now gets together ands says, "are we spending our radio promotional money wisely?"
We spent 500,000 dollars (I'm making all these numbers up by the way) recording and advertising Artist A and we're getting "NO" back from all the DJ's. We spent 100,000 dollars recording and advertising Artist B and we're getting more positive results from the DJ's.
Where should we continue to put our dollars?
Simple business decision - behind Artist B not Artist A.
Did that scenario happen? I don't know - but it's certainly imagineable. Y'all are spending lots of time "blaming" the record label for being - well, a record label. You get in bed with a label and you sign up for someone running your career based on numbers and not passion. Perhaps nobody "screwed up" here.
Want to blame someone? Perhaps you should blame your local DJ for being prejudiced against AI (many are) or TH and refusing to give him a try. Blame the production team and TH for going with a "style" of music that the radio folks didn't like?
If, however, you think that Taylor being on his own label is a gateway to radio play - well, you're sadly mistaken. Radio is rarely "out front" on anything. They are followers. Radio doesn't create popularity, they reinforce it.
Taylor's chance of ever selling as many records as he did with the J-Records release is very close to zero - REGARDLESS OF THE QUALITY OF THE MUSIC. The industry just doesn't work that way. Even a monster hit won't do it for CD sales.
Kudos for Taylor's attempts to work his own model but you might want to give up on the holy grail of radio play pretty quickly.
Daughtry appeals to the masses. So do the Sunday comics. And that's fine. Really. But some of us prefer a stroll through a Fine Arts Museum instead.
Unanimous, BINGO!
unanimous: sure, I agree with what you said about the business side of what a record label does. I get that. They're in the game to make money.
But one of the DJs I wrote to said radio doesn't CREATE hits, they PLAY the hits. Well...the public has to hear the damned song first, right? It doesn't make sense. Like the chicken and the egg thing.
I hate to say anything negative about Taylor because the haters will be all over it, but now I'm thinking that if he had agreed to put DIMYP on the TH CD, he would have sold more CDs and perhaps radio would have given another song from it a spin.
OK, now I'm sad. I need to do a little thinking and come back later.
Oh, if you voted in my poll and said that you DID hear one of T's songs on the radio, I put up a new poll so that you can tell me which song you heard.
---> But one of the DJs I wrote to said radio doesn't CREATE hits, they PLAY the hits.<---
Right, so who creates the hits? Simple, it's the radio promo people calling them up and saying "This Is Gonna Be A Hit, You Gotta Play It".
So they give it a listen and either add it to their playlist, or choose not to. It's not the DJ's by the way, it's the Programming Manager. The DJ's job is to play the list.
Radio is not going to play song 2 because song 1 was a hit either.
Frankly, I don't understand this obsession with radio anyway. Radio doesn't drive sales, it may drive concert attendance which, in the long run, is better for the artist anyway. Let's be frank as well, other than college and independent radio most of the stuff you hear on the air is dreck. In my view, if I hear Taylor's next record on commercial radio it will mean it sucks.
Well that's what I said from the very beginning, screw the stupid radio, I don't listen to it anyways.
Unanimous, what drives sales, if radio does not? How is Taylor supposed to get people to hear his music and ultimately, buy it, because that is the goal.
Having a successful career in music is the goal, not getting people to "buy" it. Purchasing is an offshoot of being a fan, you don't want to be a one hit wonder.
He needs to get out there on the road and knock the shit out of his music every night. If it's good, people will tell others and they'll come back next time he's in town.
It's old fashioned but it's the only thing that reliably works. That's why I've always thought it was nuts to be off on a Grease tour if he wants a career - unless the career he wants is in musical theater. "Inventive Promotion" aside it ain't gonna work because there is such a disconnect.
"Frankly, I don't understand this obsession with radio anyway. Radio doesn't drive sales..."
Really? Of course, all I know is my own CD- buying habits. Maybe I'm not in touch with how the public really comes to know a song or a band. I'm going to talk to some teenagers. (seriously, I think this is interesting.)
"Radio is not going to play song 2 because song 1 was a hit either."
Well, yeah, I should have been more clear. If Taylor had included DIMYP on the TH CD, I believe it would have sold more copies. I don't happen to like the song, but a lot of AI viewers did.
So, if Taylor had made more money for the record company buy selling more CDs, wouldn't they be more likely to ask the PROGRAM DIRECTORS (thanks for correcting me because you're right) to play another song because "this one's gonna be a big hit, too!" ?
Let me be clear. Being on the radio is certainly a good thing. More people hear you, therefore more people might be likely to check out a show and become a fan. The problem is that sales, specifically driven by a "hit" on the radio - don't make a career. It's the old fashioned hit the road and play in front of your fans activities that do that.
I don't follow your logic, Unanimous. I don't know of ANY people who go to an artist's concert, who have never heard the music beforehand. It is about the music afterall - that's the reason MOST people go to concerts. Word of mouth, doesn't always work, and could actually backfire by proving that the SP is fanatical, most people DO NOT like to be associated with that. Taylor, should, of course, try to bank on his AI popularity and win, but I'm not sure if anyone cares about that anymore.
Whatever, I guess.
The picture of what part radio plays has never been clear and is getting muddier.
Read the FAQ page here:
http://www.musicfirstcoalition.org/#/faq/
and check out the very long list of artists supporting this cause.
OMG, my head is spinning and this is driving me bananas!! How the hell do you survive in this business and why would anybody want to do it??
unanimous: you make some intelligent arguments, but I don't agree with you. How many people see a performer on the road? I mean, an actual head count of how many people are sitting there in that venue. If you're just starting out, it may only be 300 people. But how many people hear a song on the radio when they're driving in their car every day to work? How can you discount the impact of radio play???
I have to go deal with some real life issues now, so play nice.
--> I don't follow your logic, Unanimous. I don't know of ANY people who go to an artist's concert, who have never heard the music beforehand.< --
But did they hear that music on the radio? I'm arguing, no. They heard about a band from a friend or on a website and then they went and found the music themselves. Music DISCOVERY isn't happening on the radio because there is nothing to discover on large commercial stations. It may be happening on small, indie stations but most folks reading here seem to want TH to exist in the stratosphere or superstars.
Also, I'm only speaking for myself, but I hate it when someone trys to shove an artist down by throat, by telling me how good they are. I usually back away even more. I don't like these hard-sell tactics and I honestly think they end up hurting the artist.
--> I mean, an actual head count of how many people are sitting there in that venue. If you're just starting out, it may only be 300 people. But how many people hear a song on the radio when they're driving in their car every day to work? How can you discount the impact of radio play??? < --
My argument is that hearing a song on the radio isn't the be all and end all to helping an artists career. In fact, there are some people arguing today that radio play actually reduces sales. What it should be for is to drive people to shows - that's where artists make their money.
Unanimous, people have busy lives with much higher priorities in life. How many people do you think go on the internet to find new music? I'll bet you that percentage is very low.
I'm sorry, but your point of view does not make sense to me.
--> Unanimous, people have busy lives with much higher priorities in life. How many people do you think go on the internet to find new music? I'll bet you that percentage is very low.
< --
How old are you? I don't mean any disrespect but music, at least popular music, exists online. Radio? Please.
If you think that TH must exist in the realm of Top 40 then please continue to focus all your thoughts on radio. If at the same time you want him to stay "true to his roots" please stop focusing on Top 40 radio. You can't have both. The first CD was a direct result of shooting for Top 40 radio. If you liked that one, well - there you go.
According to T's own words the next record will focus more on his own style - therefore, no radio.
I'm just suggesting you might want to adjust your expectations.
I've added a name to not be anonymous #40.
Unanimous, I agree with you. I find almost ALL of my music on the internet. I rarely listen to the radio. If I do, I listen to indie stations. I find music by going on different sites, blogs, myspace, youtube, word of mouth from fellow music fans and very rarely I'll hear a song on the radio and like it. Everyone I know is the same way. IMO people that are preoccupied with the radio thing are out of the loop and yes they are probably an older generation. You DO NOT NEED RADIO to have a successful album. I love Ray Lamontagne and don't ever hear him on the radio.
The internet is where music is being explored by many today. I also give all the Idol music a chance as well since it's exposed to me. Taylor's album did not do it for me at all. I liked a couple songs but it was not what I expected. Right now, I don't expect him to hit the big time. He says his album is great but he said his other album was great too. So whatever. What's he going to say? He's selling himself. Time will tell if his new music is any good.
iTunes is controlling the world of music today. Radio is there... yes. But mostly, the younger generation, at least the ones in college only listen to it for news and talk shows. I'm not in college and that's the only reason I listen to it, either that or, I caught an old song that I haven't heard in years.
Now... if you really want to argue radio... (I agree with unanimous btw) Satellite radio is amazing. For the single month that I had it, (i got a new car and haven't replaced it yet), I had the time of my life. I heard all sorts of new and old songs. I got to listen to real blues, and I did catch the end of one of Taylor's LIVE songs. They never explained it to me, but my God he got radio play!! It was exciting at the moment.
Now that's where our generation is heading. The people that really pay attention to music and study it are the ones that have/will listen to Taylor. They found it iTunes or Satellite.
The other side of this generation is that they really don't care. If it's a new song by Chris Brown or Fergie, THEY LOVE IT. Whether the song makes sense or not.
And unfortunately that side's population is a bit larger than the side who cares about what they listen too. Taylor's music (excluding his latest cd), and his music likes are the types of music that illustrate ideas and hopes, they teach people, and they remind us of how important it is to follow your heart.
Now, I believe that the reason Taylor's cd didn't get play is simply because, 1) That first group that I mentioned... probably thought that it wasn't up to par for them to really understand. Probably thought it was lame. 2) That second group that I mentioned, thought it was gay. And I say it that way, because that's the way that they say it, the younger crowd?
(Now I understand that I'm a teenager, but I refuse to listen to anybody who argues with me about my age, because I hate the stipulation of my age.)
I have respect for music which not a lot of my friends do. No one cares to hear Taylor on the radio because they don't know what he's like and they dont care too.
And it's sad, but with his first album, he had no chance running into the scene like that.
I don't classify his that album as music. I classify it as Theme Songs for a new sitcom. I dont mean that I don't like him, because I do. It's just not his music. It's completely different, and doesn't suit him at all.
So if he really wants "radio-play" and a chance to prove himself, he better not make another pop album, that belongs back in the 70's with Abba.
So, Unanimous, let me get this straight, when an artist puts out a cd, the goal is not for people to buy it? So, what exactly is the point of putting out a CD?
I'm really trying to understand your logic, but I'm totally baffled.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course you want people to buy a CD, but your bigger goal is to make them a long term fan.
OK, this is good. I like hearing different opinions. It helps me LEARN.
Kenzie, I love your comments because you ARE a teenager AND you're deep and smart and wise.
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but don't people listen to the radio in their cars anymore?
I talked to two teenagers in my neighborhood (they know I used to write for a paper, so they're used to my questions!). Here's where they said they get their music:
1- Word of mouth
2- Myspace. They check out music their friends post on their myspace pages or they'll go to a band's myspace page and check out their "friends" music.
3- Guitar Hero. Now that was a surprise. One of the boys said he heard music on Guitar Hero that he's never heard before and then he went to itunes to download it.
4- Internet radio. I was told that a station can be created for you. You type in a band that you like, and they'll play music for you like that band. (I don't know if I explained that correctly, maybe Kenzie knows what he was talking about.)
5- And of course, they never buy CDs, they download music.
What? Radio wasn't on the list? Who knew? :-)
Those crazy kids are talking about Pandora (www.pandora.com) - it's all about "discovery".
Yes! That's it- Pandora.
So, if you're so smart, unanimous, how does Taylor get heard? :)
Guitar Hero, Caryl. That's his only hope. LOL!! Just kidding.
Yeah, the best place to start is the radio. Then iTunes I guess will promote him. I find a lot of good music at Starbucks that catches my eye as well.
His best hope I guess would be to promote through iTunes rather than worrying about the radio, that's what Michael Buble did anyways, and he's a hit.
But, you asked teens who have plenty of time on their hands. What about your average adult? You know, the ones who have full-time jobs, families to support and households to take care of? Even someone single and in their 20's does not make going to the internet to look up new music a priority in their lives - they just don't. I'll bet you the only times they even listen to music is on the radio, in their cars going back and forth to work.
unanimous, that was a friendly question, by the way!
So I also asked my teenage sons where they get their music and their answers were basically the same. No radio, no CDs.
But, yeah, there are those of us who discover music through radio so I still think it's a viable medium.
Well, I'm pooped. I think I'll go to myspace and find a calming little tune with which to loll myself to sleep. But before I get into bed, I'll turn my friends on to this new tune I found through word of mouth and perhaps get that whole Pandora thing set up.
nite all!
Caryl, you asked the question as to whether anyone listened to the radio any more. Comments were also made to the effect that only older people listen to the radio.
I haven't listened to commercial music radio (of any genre) in over 10 years. And I'm 48.
I must be hipper than I thought, because my mode of music discovery is the same as the teens you described here. The only difference is that I substitute "music blogs" in place of "MySpace" (which I can't stand for the most part). Word of mouth, great reviews, shared downloads and streams are all what get me interested in music that goes way beyond cookie-cutter Clear Channel crap. And yes, I work a full-time job and have a family so I don't have that much time on my hands.
Unanimous, I'm applauding your posts, by the way. I agree with everything you've said.
Thanks for an interesting discussion!
--> Even someone single and in their 20's does not make going to the internet to look up new music a priority in their lives - they just don't. I'll bet you the only times they even listen to music is on the radio, in their cars going back and forth to work. <--
If they care about music, they most absolutely do. People in their 20's listen to their iPod in the car. Possibly Satellite radio. Broadcast radio for new music discover is dead. It just is.
Interesting article at MSNBC.com titled "Who Needs Radio Anymore?" but it's from 2003:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3341465
Worth a read, but I'm still looking for something more recently published.
I know lots of single women in their 20's. Their social lives are their priority, not discovering new music on the internet! And, your talking about an ai winner and young women could care less!
As long as there are record labels, radio WILL NEVER DIE! Radio is the the cheapest form of entertainment - it's FREE! Those of you that want to get rid of radio, that will never happen! You're just mad anyway because they refused to play Taylor. You wouldn't feel that way if they did play him, now would you?
Anonymous, you seem confused.
I'm not proclaiming "Get rid of radio!". I'm saying that as a mechanism to discover new music it simply isn't what it used to be. There are much better channels for this than the passive model that radio listening is.
Active music listeners will use active channels to find music. A casual 20 year old radio listener won't be the person buying your songs and supporting your career anyway.
I already stated what I thought about TH on the radio. I don't really care one way or the other.
Nobody is trying to get rid of radio, I think we're trying to figure out how relevant radio is anymore. You know, the reality of how many people actually still listen to radio.
My original blog post stated that radio play is everything and for whatever reason, the TH CD wasn't played. But because of some intelligent and honest comments here, I'm beginning to see that you can have a career in music without radio play.
I have more to say, I'll be back.
When the press release came out about Taylor's deal with Artist to Market, one sentence stuck out in my mind:
"In this digital age, when artists can connect more directly with audiences, this is a partnership that makes a lot of sense," says Hicks.
Paul Ignasinski, General Manager of A2M said, "As the industry continues to evolve, it's exciting to see significant artists approach the marketplace in a new way."
Sounds to me like they have plans to get the music out there without relying on commercial radio.
Unanimous: I imagine you're thinking to yourself, "My work here is done." LOL! Thank you for participating in the discussion and for not making any personal attacks. (You see people, that's the way it's done. *smiley face*)
I'm happy to learn that radio play may not be that important. That's good news for Taylor. I guess I know what my topic will be next Taylor Tuesday.
You guys can keep talking if you like, but I'm satisfied.
Your average Mr. & Mrs. Joe Blow... (with two children), your average single working girl is either too busy or is not interested in finding new music on the internet. People who do this are in a minority. This is reality and I deal in reality!
"A casual 20 year old radio listener won't be the person buying your songs and supporting your career anyway."
But, this is the type of fan ANY recording artist wants and needs! You cannot be successful with ONLY a middle-age fanbase. It will NOT happen! Taylor has to find a way to reach out to this younger demographic!
Oh, please. Let's not go to the "success" place. Sometimes I think about 1/2 the TH fans wouldn't be happy unless he had as much exposure as Britney. It ain't ever gonna happen.
Success? Without radio play? Or promotion? Or HollywoodExtraInsiderTonightsNews?
One word - "Phish"
And can't you pick a better anonymous name than anonymous? It's confusing.
I thought about asking everybody to pick a name, but then they might not be comfortable posting a comment. So...whatever.
Careful unanimous, that came close to a personal attack and I JUST gave you such a lovely compliment.
:)
You need success in the music business. Do you honestly think Taylor has an endless supply of money to fund his own tours? You need FANS to fill those seats. you need PEOPLE to buy your records. It is a numbers game, whether you like it or not.
people like whatever is popular - that is a fact. You might not like it, but that's that's the way it is.
I'll play nice.
Anonymous - I'm not understanding your point.
Fund your own tours? I would suggest that Taylor has enough fans to fund a tour for himself. No, it probably won't be 5,000 seat theaters with dual tour buses etc. at this point.
The way you get more fans is to get out that and PLAY YOUR DAMN MUSIC. Not by waiting for the lightning bolt of a radio hit. It rarely happens for anyone.
You keep implying that I don't "LIKE" some information you're sharing with me but I can't exactly figure out what it is.
What does "You need success in the music business" mean?
Plus, the new reality is that people don't buy records - certainly not in the quantity they did before. So you need your "success" (which I"m assuming is monetary) to be generated elsewhere.
I'm done with this, Unamious. If you choose not to understand how the music business works in the real world, I guess that's your problem.
I said all that I have to say. But, keep this in mind, regular people DO. NOT. CARE. about finding new music on the internet and people like who and what they like. You're not going to change anybody's mind. The labels and radio have the power to make or break you - they have all the power, trust me on that.
--> If you choose not to understand how the music business works in the real world, I guess that's your problem. <--
Thank you for your thoughts - it's why I don't bother too much around here. You imply I have a problem? Weird.
Guess what, I just disagree with your opinion and I clearly laid out the reasons why. Seems that a-caryling at least took it "under advisement".
The record labels and radio are losing more power ever single day. To deny that is to ignore information that isn't up for debate, it's factual. How an artist chooses to navigate the new business models available are still up for grabs. Experimentation is what's called for. Do yourself a favor, go read up on Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails to see where the industry is headed.
there's that "real world" comment again. Guess who wrote it. If you really understand the music business you also know that one CD sucessful or not does not a career make. You can discuss this forever but it will be that long before we know who really has been successful.. My moneys on TAYLOR HICKS. The others including Daughtry will fade into the woodwork because the have nothing unique to bring to the table
--> There's that "real world" comment again. Guess who wrote it. <--
Um, you did. I was quoting you. You seemed to be engaged in some other conversation here so I'll leave it be for now unless someone else wants to talk about the issue at hand.
I don't understand the anger. It's OK to agree to disagree. But it is a fact that commercial radio is in decline. (I just read all about it!) That doesn't mean radio is completely dead. It just means that artists today have to find new ways to reach people.
I just wanna say: if all I really cared about was the superficial, I wouldn't even like McCartney anymore. He's 66 and, while he was gorgeous when young, his looks are fading. What's left then? Tons of fantastic MUSIC is what (and that incredible voice)! Whatever anyone says of me, I'm a huge fan of music, and if Tay's music was crap, I wouldn't care about him at all.
One more comment before I leave..
Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails are alternative acts. They never had nor will they EVER have mainstream success. In other words, they appeal to a small part of the population.
All alternative acts strive to be mainstream, that's why they are called "alternative".
lubiana, what are you talking about? At 66, Paul McCartney is one gorgeous man!
Anonymous - I'm sorry but you're simply wrong again.
RadioHead
Radiohead kicked off a trend last year when it released "In Rainbows" at pay-what-you-wish pricing, but whether the initiative gleaned more than just goodwill wasn't clear. Until now. This week, Warner Chappell said that people purchased 1.75 million hard copies of "In Rainbows," making the album more successful than either of the group's previous two releases. The 2003 "Hail to the Thief" sold 990,000 copies, while 2001's "Amnesiac" sold 900,000.
via: http://www.mediapost.com/publications/index.cfm?fa=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=92821
Estimates are that over 1.2 million fans saw the Radiohead tour
Nine Inch Nails
In its first week the new Nine Inch Nails 36-track instrumental album "Ghosts I-IV" had a total of 781,917 transactions, which includes free and paid downloads as well as orders for the physical copy, resulting in $1,619,420 USD. The 2,500 copies of the ultra deluxe edition of the album, which sold for $300, sold out in three days.
-----------------------
Nope, they'll never have "mainstream" success - whatever that means. Nor, I suspect, do they want it. I'm not trying to be argumentative here but, well, you're stating opinions as if they are facts.
You don't know what mainstream success is? I thought you were an expert?
The following are mainsteam acts:
Fergie, Rihanna, Daughtry, Kanye, Pink, Beyonce, Christina A, JT, Kelly Clarkson, Nickelback, Jonas Bros, Akon, Snoop, and the list goes on and on.
Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails will never achieve that kind of success....EVER!
"Nope, they'll never have "mainstream" success - whatever that means. Nor, I suspect, do they want it."
Nope, musical acts likes being poor and struggling!
Anonymous - seriously, have you read anything I posted? Because I'm curious. Do you know anything about Radiohead or NIN's business models that don't rely on record labels? Do you have any recollection of how Radiohead released "In Rainbows"?
What point are you trying to make? We're here having a discussion about whether or not artists can be "successful" with or without radio play and you're typing out lists of "mainstream" acts. Who are you talking to? What is your point?
Seems as if you want TH to appear on the list you just wrote out. Sure, I hope he gets there - go for it dude!
I don't know what else to say, I'm flummoxed. Somebody throw me a lifeline here.
You don't know what you're talking about. "Alternative" acts want to be mainstream. Are you denying that? They are not happy being "small potatoes". Give me a break. Your posts are laughable!
"Seems as if you want TH to appear on the list you just wrote out. Sure, I hope he gets there - go for it dude!"
Taylor Hicks would give up his right arm to be on that list of people. Who are you kidding?
Radiohead = Small Potatoes - right.
"The topline figure, though, is that there were three million purchases of In Rainbows, including physical CDs, box-sets, and all downloads - including those from the band’s own website and from other digital music stores."
I don't recall ever hearing Radiohead on "mainstream radio". Given the music they produce which is, one would suspect, true to their own artistic vision they are too weird to be "mainstream". Has success eluded them? No. They are wildly successful and mostly on their own terms.
Well there you go. We're digging ourselves a hole here and the best advice would be to stop digging. I feel as if you are arguing something, but I don't know what it is.
Seriously, I gotta go - it's all too much for me.
You know, some people enjoy to argue. Some people get a kick out of sniping back and forth on a personal level. I'm not one of those people. If I have to shut down the thread, I will.
Let's stick to the facts and leave personal jabs to the kids in middle school.
Radiohead does have any audience, I'm not denying that. But, are they mainstream? No, they are not. Will they ever make as much money and be as popular as mainstream acts? No, they will not. I am familiar with Radiohead's music, i find it weird and not my taste.
So, what exactly is your point with all of this?
I believe the point is that Radiohead sold their music without radio play. Nuf said, let's move on.
I don't recall Radiohead EVER being an AI contestant and that's one BIG MAJOR difference.
Let's be real here for a moment, shall we? Taylor Hicks has a lot to overcome ...A LOT!
First off, I'd rather be like Nine Inch Nails than "mainstream" anyways... it's too cliche, and its nothing but a popular race. We are not arguing about what "regular" people listen too, but people that actually care to pay for, whether its free radio or the internet. When people want to search for a song, which is where are generation is heading, they look it up online. Heck, if it weren't for internet, I would know absolutely nothing about Taylor.
I also know that Taylor will never make it mainstream, and btw, Daughtry isn't mainstream yet. He may have sold thousands of albums, but he still cant compete with Justin Timberlake. He doesn't have YEARS of success under his belt, he didn't get luckily with his first own major album. He got help from American Idol, he's in the same boat right now as Nine Inch Nails in fact. Take it from me, I have friends who listen to NIN and Daughtry, I have friends who listen to nothing but Alternative rock. And so you know, I went to an "alternative/non-mainstream" concert this year. 50- THOUSAND people and more bought tickets to a show where only 6 bands were playing. Stone Temple Pilots being the main scene, but they are alternative... aren't they?
btw - unanimous... congrats, I agree with every word you say, and you back everything up with impecable data. Bravo!
Mainstream music is a prevailing style, often influenced by commercial forces in the music industry. It has nothing to do with longevity.
Well...I have real world obligations this evening, so I hope nobody hurts anybody! I'll just have to deal with it when I get home later.
But remember that you stand a better chance of making your point if you stay calm and unemotional. As Joe Friday used to say, just the facts, please!
Send me an e-mail, if you like. I'll get it on my phone. Great discussion, by the way. I'm learning a lot.
Fame is usually the goal of an AI contestant, and it doesn't necessarily have to be music. If they happen to get a big music career, great, but if not, they usually go into different areas of the entertainment business (such as acting, modeling, etc.).
Taylor should go into acting, he might have a better chance at success. Sorry, but I don't know anybody that likes his music.
I stopped by to read all these comments. People 35 and older, still like to buy CDs and many of Tay's fans are 35+. He should have a longer career than most because he is great on tour, and middle aged people have more money to spend to go see him. I'm not worried about Taylor.
Taylor will NEVER have a successful music career with a middle-age fanbase and you can take that to the bank!
stop assuming that all his fans are middle-aged.
Im 19... thank you very much.
So no.. I'm not going to the bank.
I'm a 26 year old male. WTF is up with this middle aged fan base crap? How the hell do you know the age of the man's fan base? Where are your facts and statistics?
"How the hell do you know the age of the man's fan base? Where are your facts and statistics?"
Go visit a fan board called the Boogie Board and it's pretty obvious the age group of his fans. Give it up - the majority are mature women. Also, had the pleasure of attending his concert. Older women far outnumbered any younger women. Very few men also.
Too many anonymous spoil the stew. I can't tell who is who.
Pick a name for cripes sake, you can still be anonymous, just don't call yourself that.
" Also, had the pleasure of attending his concert. Older women far outnumbered any younger women. Very few men also."
What were you smoking at what concert? Yeah, I'll give it to you about middle aged drunk women standing in the front of the stage - however, I attended 5 concerts and from my view (from the top balconies) it was a very mixed crowd. Men, women and young adults.
Excuse me, are you calling me a liar? I attended one concert and I was surrounded by women in the 40/50/60 age group. The women sitting next to me was well past 65 and was there with her grand daughter. I have no reason to lie. Taylor has an old fanbase.
"Excuse me, are you calling me a liar? I attended one concert"....
One concert.....that makes you an expert does it? Did you take an age survey of everyone in attendance at this ONE concert you attended?
Nope, didn't need to take a survey. I used my eyes and I have 20/20 vision. Sorry, but there were few young women at this particular concert. BTW, The few men I saw were with their wives and looked to me to be past 50.
Why are people afraid to leave a comment using whatever name they use everywhere else? who cares what other people think?
Why did a discussion about the viability of radio deteriorate into mean-spirited fight about the age of Taylor's fanbase?
Why am I leaving this thread open?
So many questions, so little time. I'm leaving the thread open because some good stuff has been seeping through inbetween the same old arguments. I guess it's going to be a free-for-all tomorrow because I'll be gone all day.
Here's a fun topic: Do you think Taylor should try to attract new fans by look younger? He'll never dye his hair and I don't think he should. It's part of his "brand". But he could buff up and dress younger. I have no idea if he should or not, I'm just throwing it out there.
That should have read, "by looking younger."
Peace.
Well ,you said that a your ONE Taylor concert there was a older women there with ther grandaughter ..isn't it wonderful that Taylor can span the generations, Thats what a TRUE artist and performer can achieve. That is the reason Taylor's career will outlast most of the other "idol" contestants and that is why he was and will always be a winner. I went to an Elvis concert in 1975 when I was young and was amazed at the same thing there ALL ages coning together to enjoy. My kids are not middle aged, LOVE all kinds of music and including Taylor Hicks.
I think Taylor should remain ture to who he is..in his dress & demeanor, hair color ..whatever. Doesn't seem to hurt Michael Buble and I've seen Maroon 5 dressed in suits and ties. It's the music not the clothes that make the musician. Please no guyliner for Taylor
Took me quite a while to get caught up. Great points by so many anonymous and otherwise. Especially enjoyed Unanimous - real "snap crackle" intellect.
I agree Caryl, why won't folks use their regular on-line names? Be fearless folks, it's all good.
geeg, I agree, please no guy-liner.ha.
Kenzie's comments that the album sounded like sitcom theme songs, while perhaps stinging to some folks, really hit a mark, made a point.
Unanimous' NIN and Radiohead discussion spot on for focusing on novel ways to approach today's music industry. They've been very successful at their future forward thinking. Man, in any business, those who find success often reach the greatest degree of it through innovative thought process.
Fascinating discussion, Caryl.
Ok, I'm going to tell you one of the reasons why I think Taylor did not get radio airplay. I am a casual fan, so I can be totally objective. Taylor has an image problem. How is anybody, and I'm talking about non-fans here, supposed to take someone that yells out "Soul Patrol" seriously? I've talked to people about him, so I know. They think he's a joke and laugh at him, thinking maybe he should be a comedian instead of singer. That and the fact that he has an older fanbase and he likes the old music, makes him unappealing to most people.
Don't stop the music, He said Soul Patrol, every week during AI5 and was never in the bottom 3. There is no one around in the music business quite like Taylor, and it is his personality, quirks, daring, knowledge, talent and looks that will see him thru to a long career. He can also be an actor, is he so chooses. Some would never be a fan, soul patrol, or not.
Million record sellers and stadium sell-out "artists" (mainstream?) like the Jonas Bros. and Hannah Montana would be no-names without the Disney Channel. Miley Cyrus has no vocal talent at all yet she's a millionaire MANY times over. UGH! Many others like Fergie and Gwen Stefani and NKOTB have no vocal talent and crappy songs IMO. I am a fan of REAL music. Music that makes you FEEL something dammit.
I'd like to comment on the age of Taylor's fans. I have been to seven shows and IMO the crowds were different based largely on the venue. At a GA Boston night club the crowd was VERY diverse in age and gender, same with the Big E (large Fair/"free" concert), and a grungy "ballroom" in New Hampshire where there were lots of men. I had a conversation with a man and his father who came together to see Taylor.
It may seem like the most vocal/excitable fans are older women and the ones participating on the fan boards/forums are largely over 45 but I am not and I know many who are closer to Taylor's age than his mother's age. What does it matter really? Fans are fans and they have the means to support his career and they genuinely care about him.
"He said Soul Patrol, every week during AI5 and was never in the bottom 3."
Yes, he did but that was on the reality show. Man,it was part of his image, the guy had a marketing ploy that worked, that's why he was so ragingly successful on the show. Thing is, what 'dont' stop' is saying is the show is over.
The shouting out "SOUL PATROL" seems somewhat on the hokey side to many. Riding on the coattails of Idol, a show that has not done Hicks a lot of post-show favors.
I understand why some folks stick with it, think it's great he uses it still and want to continue with it.
Use the Soul Patrol shout out on the web, for certain functions, but man, not for every appearance every time he's on television, in interviews. In those cases it makes him seem gimmicky. That opinion provided me by someone not involved in his fan base.
IMO when Taylor says "Soul Patrol" at the end of TV performances and interviews it is endearing, not gimmicky. It's his way of remembering the fans and most of us appreciate it.
I'm kinda bored with my own topic! I don't have anything left to say, but I appreciate those of you who expressed your opinions. I'm seeing this whole radio thing in a new light.
Good job, all.
Oh- I forgot to add that I'll have a new topic on Tuesday.
sh, I understand that sentiment. What I'm reading on blogs and websites are fans questioning why Taylor's not more popular, why he's not viewed as a serious contender in the music business.
I follow various artists, not just Mr. Hicks, so I am exposed to a variety of fan-type folks. I have asked them questions about this matter and that's the overwhelming consensus.
Flip-side of that coin, what about other artists' fan bases with their selection of DeadHeads, ParrotHeads, and whoever-heads as their group names? It's all relative, depending which side of the fence you're sitting.
Returning to the topic of the new CD, I'm hoping he comes out soon with a sampling of what is to come.
Post a Comment